My interview with Lifelong Dundee fan Douglas Marsh

Douglas spoke fondly of his early life in the City of Discovery.  “My father supported both Dundee and Dundee United and he took me to see the Dundee United v Berwick Rangers game in April 1960 when United who were a Division 2 club at that time gained promotion to Division 1. We were sitting in the Main Stand at Tannadice and I kept saying to my father that I wanted to go to see the football at the big stand "up the road" which of course was Dens Park home of Dundee Football Club. Therefore in August 1960 my father took me to Dens Park where I became a Dundee supporter for life.  One Saturday evening during the 1960-61 seasons my mother was giving me my bath and the soap slipped. I shouted out "Lord Jesus Christ" and my mother who was shocked at my outburst said to me, "where did you here that". I replied, the man sitting behind me at Dens Park shouted that! My father was in big trouble but fortunately he still took me to the Dundee home games at Dens until I was able to go to them on my own with my friends. We used to go the first team games one Saturday afternoon and the reserve games the following Saturday afternoon, which is something the fans can no longer do.”

Fascinated and a little perplexed that his father had been a supporter of both Dundee and Dundee United, teams historically with great city rivalry. I asked Douglas how on earth that could be the case?  “My father who was a teacher was not unique in supporting both Dundee teams as prior to the introduction of the 3 day working week around 1974. Men used to work on a Saturday morning finishing work at 12 noon with enough time to go for a pint and a pie before attending home games week about at Dens and Tannadice.  People did not have enough time to travel for away games or travel to support Rangers or Celtic. The introduction of the 3 day week meant that Rangers and Celtic supporters had plenty of time on a Saturday to travel from Dundee to Glasgow and attendances at provincial clubs such as Dundee and United fell.”
Attendances at Division 1 Provincial Clubs 1960-1980
Season                        Aberdeen   Dundee       Dundee Utd    Heart          Hibs            Kilmarnock       Total    
1960-61
12,617
12,835
11,382
20,294
15,470
12,450
14,175
1961-62
7,761
15,933
9,362
13,827
9,762
10,477
11,187
1962-63
11,740
11,421
9,038
12,778
9,095
8,777
10,475
1963-64
9,084
13,926
9,047
13,834
11,714
8,891
11,083
1964-65
8,161
12,057
9,050
16,785
13,860
10,475
11,731
1965-66
8,275
9,025
8,779
12,109
11,954
8,706
9,808
1966-67
11,786
9,035
7,342
10,241
12,796
8,439
9,940
1967-68
10,055
7,608
6,267
11,228
11,959
5,693
8,802
1968-69
11,325
7,003
8,307
11,546
11,205
8,293
9,613
1969-70
10,730
6,946
8,328
12,475
13,615
6,724
9,803
1970-71
15,916
6,745
6,986
11,667
10,541
5,933
9,631
1971-72
18,014
8,024
6,765
11,196
14,057
5,716
10,629
1972-73
13,572
7,883
6,924
10,261
16,100
4,488
9,871
1973-74
8,656
6,949
5,469
11,732
14,339
3,639
8,464
1974-75
9,673
7,335
6,629
12,224
13,720
7,021
9,434
1975-76
11,773
8,767
7,616
12,676
13,796
4,239
9,811
1976-77
13,797
4,517
7,127
11,716
10,003
5,848
8,835
1977-78
16,115
6,729
8,410
9,862
9,646
2,833
8,933
1978-79
14,156
5,970
9,102
10,886
9,794
3,033
8,824
1979-80
12,968
9,433
10,236
5,733
9,564
6,990
                  9,154

















Table 1.0: Data Source: David Ross- The Roar of the Crowd
Although the 3 day working week which was introduced by the Conservative government at the beginning of 1974 appears to have had no immediate effect on the attendances of provincial Division 1 clubs, the data confirms that average attendances of clubs other than the old firm began to steadily decline during the mid to late 70’s.  It is entirely plausible that the substantial economic and political instability of the 70’s were a major contributor to attendance decrees. Dundee’s average attendances appear to have been particularly affecting with average attendance reaching as low as 4,517 in the 76-77 season.

Douglas was lucky as a youngster, being one of the very few current Dundee fans to have witnessed the team winning the league.  I wanted to know more about his early experiences and memories that had led him to be so committed during so many difficult years.  “ Lawrie Smith was the Dundee FC physiotherapist in the early 1960's.  My father was a PE student at Jordanhill with Lawrie Smith's brother-in-law and they shared digs together. He arranged for me to have a tour of Dens Park. Craig Brown who was a Dundee FC player at that time was also a part-time PE teacher at Macalpine Primary School and he picked me up in his car after I had finished school at Downfield PS to take me to Dens Park for my guided tour. Needless to say I was "star struck" to be given a tour around Dens Park including the Board Room and players changing rooms. Lawrie Smith also arranged for me to receive a player's jersey. I was supposed to receive Ian Ure's but unfortunately it got ripped so I received Gordon Smiths instead. Surprisingly Gordon Smiths chest size was only 36 inches and I remember wearing the jersey as an eight year old. The jersey went down to my ankles!”

Douglas still has the jersey and confesses that it now has paint stains on it as in 1968 he wore it painting a wall, at the time he did not understand the significance of the jersey. Perhaps the most profound thing that Douglas said about his life as a Dundee fan  was, “It is very hard being a Dundee supporter whether attending games at Dens or elsewhere, as nothing is simple. You go from ecstasy to despair from one week to the next and sometimes during the game as well.” I’m sure most football fans can identify with this sentiment in one way or another, perhaps in a mad way it’s why we love football.
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Flying the Flag

The orthodox British football season is a nine month marathon; cup finals are contested in the month of May. As fans travel the length and breadth of the country week after week, the trips, games, and emotions, can blend together to form a haze of unmemorable routine, partiality exacerbated by the alcohol consumed. Fans remember cup finals, if your luck enough to have a team that reaches a cup final in your lifetime that is. Watching your team’s captain lift a trophy above his head at the national stadium is a moment that lives in the memory forever. In Scotland, this emblematic act of triumph, was reserved for the Scottish and league Cup winners. 

The league winners didn’t receive the trophy at the end of the season. In fact, the Dundee league winning team didn’t lay eyes on the trophy all summer.
At that time, the administration department at the Scottish league had the trophy sent from their head office in West Regent Street, Glasgow. Perhaps these logistics seem a little prehistoric through 21st century eye, although probably entirely logical given the resources and technology at their disposable. Goal scoring hero Gilzean accounts on the Dundee FC official website that he first caught a glimpse of the silverware as he walked by the boardroom on the 6th of August. The rest of the squad finally got their hands on the trophy three days later, where they were pictured in front on an empty main stand at Dens, the trophy proudly held by Captain Bobby Cox. This subdued meeting of trophy and players is worlds apart from the events of the 04/05 season climax, which any well versed Scottish football follower knows as "helicopter Sunday".
“
Rangers quite casually playing it about at Easter road, they know that all they can do is wait and hope that Motherwell can put a sting in Celtics championship bid. Davie Clarcksons coming on for Motherwell, it’s going to be Mark Fitzpatrick coming off. 87 and a half minutes on the clock, now we will stay at Fir Park because Rangers have a 1 goal advantage at Easter road, Craigen’s going to play this, it’s a long one up in the air, Varga, Foren, shot!, heres Foran, hes Scored! hes scored! McDonalds scored for Motherwell! Scott McDonald has scored; the Celtic players can’t believe it, their dead on their feet, 1-1 at Fir Park. The title will be heading to Easter road to Rangers, The helicopter is changing direction!”

These words from Radio Clyde’s, excellent sports broadcaster, Peter Martin, have gone down in Scottish football folk law.  An iconic moment which for the younger generation can be described as Martyn Tiler esca, as he shouted the name of Manchester City’s Argentinian goal scorer, Sergio Aguero, as they won the 2012 English Premiere league title with a last gasp goal, coincidently from their city rivals. For the neutral, the best finish to a long league season Scotland has ever and will in all likelihood ever see (which is quite a feat considering the finally of the 2003 campaign). The SPL championship trophy had been boarded onto a helicopter and headed for Fir Park, the rest you could say, is history!

Dundee’s league title win of 61/62 was formally celebrated with the then traditional flying of the league title flag at the opening match of the following season, in which the champions are honoured with the privilege of playing at home. In spite of the considerable advances in resources and technology, which enables the Scottish football authorities to fly silverware around the country in mesmerizingly quick time, Scottish football continues to respect and honour the tradition of flying the league title flag at the first game of the league champions in addition to the trophy presentation which is now plausible.
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Throw Back to that not so glorious day in the Faroes Islands

As Rangers and St Johnstone crashed out of Europe over the past fortnight and Aberdeen on the cusp of elimination, it made me think of Berti's side in the Faroe Islands in 2002. Most Scotland fans old enough to have seen it will remain emotional scared forever, England in Euro 16 doesn't even compare, it was without doubt scraping the barrel of despair for the tartan army. But have we really made progress since?
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Play for the sake of playing! (part1)

A little trivia to begin. The oldest club currently still in the English Football League is Notts County 

Formed in 1867, Queen’s Park were to very quickly become ground breakers within the Scottish game. Despite the impact that the club was to have on the infancy of Scottish football, their creation was markedly humble. The quote that adorns the club website (history), reads “tonight at half past eight o’clock a number of gentlemen met at No.3 Eglinton Terrace for the purpose of forming a football club.” This brief, matter-of-fact statement summarises the meeting headed by club president Mungo Ritchie and tells the story of a community looking to simply give football to its people, and nothing more.
A year later Queen’s Park played their first game, beating Thistle FC 2-0, as they began their long journey in association football.
In March 1873, they – along with eight other Scottish clubs – formed the Scottish Football Association, having already been members of the Football Association in London since 1870. Despite some alterations along the way, the Scottish FA, jointly formed by Queen’s Park, is still the same institution that governs Scottish football to this day.
As part of their role in formulating and creating the Scottish FA, Queen’s Park also took on the role of providing a Scottish national team. In fact, in Scotland’s debut international game against England in September 1872, Queen’s Park provided all eleven Scottish players for the 0-0 draw against the Auld Enemy. For the ‘return leg’ in London in March 1873, Scotland were beaten 4-2, with seven of those in the team for that game Queen’s Park players, all selected by club captain Robert Gardner. In contrast, the English team that day had representatives from eight different clubs, thus demonstrating Queen’s Park’s prominence in Scottish football.
Symbolically, the national team for those games also sported Queen’s Park’s original dark blue jerseys, which the national side continues to wear today. This was another example of Queen’s Park’s pioneering role in the early history of Scottish football. Perhaps in deference to the new national team, the members at Queen’s Park voted to change the club colours just six months later to the black and white inch striped jerseys that inspired their nickname – The Spiders – as it is said to resemble a spider’s web.
In the same year as the colour change, Queen’s – with the other founder members of the Scottish FA – created the Scottish Cup; the Hoops won the inaugural version of the competition in 1874.
Indeed, the latter part of the nineteenth century proved to be a period of dominance for Queen’s Park, winning the Scottish Cup ten times between 1874 and 1893, a record only bested since by Celtic and Rangers.
Curiously, during this period Queen’s Park also competed in the English FA Cup as did Third Lanark, Partick Thistle, Hearts, Rangers, Cowlairs, Renton and Gretna – the latter’s participation came almost a century after the SFA’s ban on Scottish clubs participating in the FA Cup because – due to their location on the England/Scotland border – it was more convenient to play in England’s Northern League; a Berwick Rangers situation in reverse, if you will. Queen’s, however, are the only Scottish club to reach the final, finishing as runners-up to Blackburn Rovers in both 1884 and 1885.
As standard bearers of the Scottish game, Queen’s Park were invited to play in the FA Cup from 1872, however, financial constraints restricted them to just one appearance prior to the 1883-84 season.
It was at this point, after years of dominance in the Scottish Cup, that the club wanted to test themselves against England’s best. Their first full campaign was an eye-opener for those English sides that faced them as they hammered established teams such as Crewe Alexandra (10-0), Aston Villa (6-1) and Blackburn Olympic (4-0) en route to their final defeat. The following season continued in the same vein, as they beat both Notts County and Nottingham Forest on their way to another runners-up finish.
Queen’s Park had established themselves as a force, not just within Scotland, but across Britain with these victories over clubs with much greater resources. However, in the following two seasons in the FA Cup the club failed to match these achievements and in 1887 the Scottish FA banned all member teams from playing in English competitions, extinguishing any chance of Queen’s Park ever winning the trophy.
Despite their success in Scotland, the turn of the century was to see a real change in the club’s fortunes as domestic football continued its process of significant change.
In 1890, the Scottish Football League was formed, becoming a professional structure in 1893. Queen’s Park declined an invitation to join as they were determined to adhere to their strict amateur principals.
This decision to remain as an amateur club was a fundamental one for Queen’s Park, their initial opposition was borne out of concern that smaller clubs would eventually be driven out of the League through the advent of professionalism. Given their role as early governors of the game it would have been hypocritical of the club to support a move that they deemed as potentially harmful.
However, the decision to abstain from the newly formed League left them in a difficult position, as regular football against quality opposition was difficult to come by, with most ‘top’ clubs now League members.
Therefore, at the start of the 1900-01 season Queen’s Park swapped the Glasgow League for the professional Scottish Football League – joining Division One – but preserving their amateur status in the process.
Certain literature on the history of the club states that Queen’s Park believed that, due to its position as a ‘premier’ Scottish club, their ability to beat acclaimed English sides in the past, and their strong position within the Scottish FA, they could survive as amateurs. In fact, other members of the Scottish FA encouraged the club to alter its stance, warning that they could descend into oblivion, such was the chasm between professional and amateur outlooks.
Retaining their code of ‘amateurism’, which Queen’s Park still abide by to this day, means that the club holds not only the proud record of the oldest football club in the country, but also the only amateur side in the current SPFL.
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Johan Cruyff


Johan Cruyff, a man widely regarded as one of football’s greats has died aged 68. Having never seen him or even a team he managed play live I am perhaps not best qualified to talk about Cruyff’s life. Yet, he is, I believe, the modern games most important exponant.
A pioneering artist, philosopher and sportsmen, Cruyff’s legacy transcends just football, especially in his native Holland and adopted Catalonia.
Johan was born in Amsterdam on the 25th of April 1947. In 1964 a 17year old Cruyff scored on his Ajax debut.
In his first stint with Ajax he won 6 Eredivisie titles, 4 Dutch Cups and 3 European Cups before moving to FC Barcelona where he cultivated the brand of football they have so famously advocated ever since. Between ’79 and ’81 he graced the USA where he starred for LA Aztecs and Washington Dips. An unsuccessful spell with Levante resulted in a move back to Holland with Ajax where he won another two Eredivisie titles. However, in typical Cruyff fashion, after a falling out with the Ajax board over a new contract he joined arch-rivals Feyenoord, where he stuck it to his doubters by helping the Rotterdam club to the Dutch Championship.
With Ajax in the 60s, Cruyff embodied young liberal Amsterdam. Despite what many claim Cruyff did not invent Total Football. It wasn’t even Ajax, Feyenoord won the European Cup playing an early brand of the system in 1970. But it was Cruyff under the steady hand of Rinus Michels who took Total Football to the world, mastering the system and throughout the early 70s, dominating the game with their idealistic style. Total Football was a philosophy.
It is an ideology; functionalism through dimension and patterns. This, combined with Cruyff’s balletic grace fused the conservative dogmatism of old Holland with the emerging progressive ideas of postmodern Amsterdam. Total Football was high brow, sexy and artistic. It was at the centre of the Dutch sexual revolution in the 1960s and Cruyff was the poster boy. He was Holland’s answer to Lennon and Dylan. Johan Cruyff was much more than just a talented footballer, he was the youth idol of a formerly restrained country finding it’s voice.
His symbolic status is equally as strong in Catalunya where Cruyff propelled FC Barcelona to lasting footballing dominance. Leaving Ajax in the summer of 1973, Cruyff rebuffed the advances of Real Madrid stating he could never join a side “associated with Franco” and instantly making himself a figure of Catalan resistance. Barca broke the world record to sign Cruyff. Catalan’s were repressed under Franco, but now, they could be proud of their team; they had the continents best player and in Cruyff’s first season won the La Liga for the first time in 14 years. Additionally, in 1974 Cruyff named his newborn son ‘Jordi’, a Catalan name, cementing his place in the folklore of the region.
He would return to Barcelona as manager eternally stamping the club with his brand of football. Known as the ‘Dream team’ between 1988 and 1996 his Barca side commanded European football winning all before them. The Messi, Xavi, Guadiola Barca of recent years exists as a direct continuation of the Cruyff philosophy. La Maisa, Barca’s famed academy is the brain child of the Dutchman who felt Barca should imitate Ajax’s style of development. And it’s fairly safe to say it’s proved a worthwhile project.
As a manager and as a player Cruyff enjoyed amassed endless silverware at club level however his very Dutch failure to win any trophies on the international stage has seen him dismissed when compared to the games greatest. How can Cruyff be as good as Pele and Maradona, he never won a World Cup? Be this as it may, Cruyff came as close as it gets in ’74 when the Dutch seemed to self destruct against the West Germans, preferring to humiliate their nemesis playing keep ball  than finish the job. They lost 2-1. And yet even in this bizarre defiance, there is something poetic and artistic about Holland and Cruyffs approach. Integrity for integrity’s sake.
This is a defining characteristic of Cruyff, his self assurance never wavered and his views were always outspoken. Unlike Pele for instance who was a player of phenomenal technique but a man who at times appears all too keen to please, a regular at FIFA black tie events. Both commercial giants, Cruyff carried himself with principle, refusing interviews with publications he didn’t respect and missing the 1978 World Cup to be with his wife and family.
Moreover, Diego Maradona, also of brilliant footballing ability, was a man who spoke his mind although, with far less of the wisdom Cruyff projected. Like Cruyff, Maradona tried his hand at management. He needn’t have bothered, achieving nothing of note. Pele and Maradona can arguably match Cruyff’s ability and success but it is Cruyff’s vision and unique understanding of football that make him, if not the games greatest player then the games greatest mind.
The great sides of recent times; Barca, Bayern, Arsenal, Spain, all imitate the fluent passing style Cruyff advocated. The world’s most successful youth development programmes at Ajax and Barcelona live and die by the Cruyff manifesto. His artistry inspired, his philosophy and principle revolutionized societies. Cruyff’s symbolic significance make him one of the great Europeans of the last 100 years.

Johan Cruyff’ has played a bigger role than anyone in constructing the modern game. One of the finest on the pitch, he is the most influential visionary the game has seen.
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Euro 2016 Group B preview


England

Euro 2016 prospects: After the 2014 World Cup debacle comes hope that England's youthful squad have learned some valuable tournament lessons.
Unlike Euro 2012, when Roy Hodgson took charge a month prior to the finals, he has had since September to plan ahead, with England having breezed through qualifying.
He used 33 players en route to France; there is emerging talent in the squad but Euro 2016 may come too soon.
How they qualified: Group E winners. England were the only nation to qualify with a 100% winning record, the first time they have done so in a European Championship qualifying campaign.
A tally of 31 goals - seven from Wayne Rooney - was second only to Poland's 33.
Euro pedigree: Third of the four finalists in 1968, England were also semi-finalists as hosts of Euro 96.
Statistically, Euro 2012 was England's best showing on foreign soil at the continental tournament: they were unbeaten aside from a quarter final exit on penalties against Italy.
Key player: Wayne Rooney
Who's the boss?
This will be 68-year-old Roy Hodgson's third major tournament as England boss as he looks to secure an extension to a contract that expires after Euro 2016. Hodgson has managed 14 club sides and four national teams.

Russia
Euro 2016 prospects: Winless at the 2014 World Cup, Russia's fortunes have improved since Fabio Capello's sacking in July this year. Replacement Leonid Slutsky reinforced the defence with players from Champions League regulars CSKA Moscow, who he also manages.
How they qualified: They claimed only eight points from six games under Capello but won their remaining four with Slutsky at the helm, including a vital win over Sweden to pip them to automatic qualification.
Euro pedigree: Winners as the Soviet Union in 1960, and finalists in 1964, 1972 and 1988. A run to the semi-finals in 2008 is their best performance since the fall of the Iron Curtain in 1991.
Key player: Sergei Ignashevich. Russia's rock is now 36 but he remains vital. The CSKA Moscow defender helped Russia keep five clean sheets in the nine qualifiers he played in.
Premier League players: None.
Who's the boss? Leonid Slutsky was rewarded for rescuing Russia's Euro 2016 campaign with a contract until after the finals.


Wales
Euro 2016 prospects: After a 58-year wait to play in a major tournament, Wales will not be going just to make up the numbers. Gareth Bale's goals propelled them to France, but captain and defensive rock Ashley Williams is equally as important.
The Welsh FA's Together Stronger slogan epitomises their brilliant team spirit.
How they qualified: They lost just once, away to Bosnia-Herzegovina, and conceded four goals - only Romania, England and Spain let in fewer. Bale and Aaron Ramsey scored nine of Wales' 11 goals.
Euro pedigree: Debutants at a 'finals'. Reached the quarter-finals in 1976, when only the semi-finals onwards were regarded as the finals.
Key player: Gareth Bale
Premier League players: Joe Allen (Liverpool), James Chester (West Brom), James Collins (West Ham), Ben Davies (Tottenham), Wayne Hennessey and Joe Ledley (both Crystal Palace), Andy King (Leicester), Aaron Ramsey (Arsenal), Neil Taylor and Ashley Williams (both Swansea).

Who's the boss? Chris Coleman took over in difficult circumstances following the death of Gary Speed in 2011.
Booed regularly at the start of his tenure, with a 6-1 World Cup qualifying defeat in Serbia the nadir of poor results early on, Coleman is now in talks to extend his contract beyond 2016.

Slovakia
Euro 2016 prospects: Slovakia will be appearing at just their second major tournament in 11 attempts since gaining independence in 1993.
They reached the last 16 at the 2010 World Cup, helping to knock out Italy in the group stages. They also beat Spain in qualifying for Euro 2016 so are not afraid to mix it with the big boys.
How they qualified: Slovakia won their first six qualifiers, including a 2-1 win over Spain. However, one point from their next three matches left them level on points with Ukraine before a 4-2 win over Luxembourg sealed second spot.
Euro pedigree: This is their first appearance.
Key player: Merek Hamsik
Premier League player: Martin Skrtel (Liverpool).

Who's the boss? Former Czechoslovakia international Jan Kozak was appointed in July 2013. The 61-year-old had previously managed several Slovakian league clubs.
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